Episode #8: Michael Fisher

Hosted by Nissim Black

July 5, 2021 00:35:00

Pastor of Greater Zion Church Family and gospel artist joins Nissim to discuss some of life’s most important matters such as knowing your worth, being an ambassador of God, and sharing your gifts with others. 

The Deal with Nissim Black is produced by The Joshua Network.

Episode Transcript

Introduction [00:00:11]

This is The Deal with Nissim Black.

 

Nissim Black [00:00:26]

Hey, what’s going on, everybody, this is Nissim Black, a.k.a. G0DSMAN, a.k.a. Hitler’s Worst Nightmare, a.k.a. Sammy Davis cousin. You already know what it is. I was born in Seattle to hip hop parents, got in trouble as a kid, but I was able to make a major life turn around. I was a Muslim in my younger years, I became a Christian in my teens, only to discover that my soul was Jewish all along. So I picked up on my family and we moved to Israel, where we are today. And everybody knows who’s been listening already, this podcast is unpredictable. Who we bring on will be unpredictable, what we talk about will be unpredictable. And that’s the way I love to do it. Talking about everything that we possibly can under the sun from faith, religion, politics, your politics, my politics, and everything that we could possibly think of. So that brings us to today, where we have our guest Dr. Michael JT Fisher. He is the lead pastor at the Greater Zion Church family, a position he has held since he was 25 years old. He is a gospel artist who uses the power of his voice to preach in a way that is real, raw and relevant. He is more than just full of faith. He’s got so much passion and he’s got more than anybody else out there.

 

Nissim Black [00:01:45]

Pastor, thank you so much for joining me. I really do appreciate having you here. I really, really do. And we had some technical difficulties So, you know, when there’s, we always say when there’s obstacles then that means there’s something great on the other side. So I really do appreciate you making your effort to be on. So I have one question for you that I have to ask you as also to a musician and a man of faith, you and I both use our music and we try to help spread faith and love with our music. For you personally, was music always a part of something you wanted to incorporate into your leadership, or was it something that came later on for you?

 

Michael Fisher [00:02:21]

Yes. So music has always been a part of my approach. I come from a musical family. And my dad, who was the pastor before me, he was known in the church community as a preacher that could sing. And my dad raised me saying, “Use all the gifts that God has given you to be able to reach the masses.” So when I came into this, I knew I could sing, all of my sisters and brothers sing, so it’s kind of like, I used to call us like the gospel version of the Jacksons.

 

Nissim Black [00:02:51]

Fisher Five!

 

Michael Fisher [00:02:54]

So, yeah, it was always a part of the plan to get me in to get me to an audience and get me in some rooms that the stigma of Pastor Fisher would not give me access to. And it has actually worked. So I’ve been able to perform on stages where I think that normally they wouldn’t have received me. So it worked pretty well.

 

Nissim Black [00:03:14]

That’s amazing because, you know, it’s very interesting because in my world, in the Jewish world and now I think it’s even spread to a lot of the motivational speaking now these days, there’s a certain concept called mixtape, which is not like mixtape I grew up with hearing, you know, gritty rhymes on somebody else’s beat, which later on became something else like these, you know, pre-albums. But mixtape in terms of using music behind very, very powerful, uplifting messages or some type of speech or something like that. And I remember I was sitting in a corner with friends like telling me like there’s this new thing, you know, that everybody’s doing now. I’m just like, man, they’ve been doing that in church for years. What are you talking about? You know what I’m saying? Before the altar call happens and then that music starts playing and your heart starts opening up. Like, music has always been a part of it, you know what I mean? And do you see that influence from really the church starting to spread out into these other places like I do?

 

Michael Fisher [00:04:13]

Yeah, well, hopefully. I mean, if the church is smart, they would. I think that music, as we all know, is the universal language.

 

Nissim Black [00:04:23]

Right.

 

Michael Fisher [00:04:24]

It crosses all religion. It crosses all forms of cultural background. You feel music, it makes you sad, happy, excited, scared. Music really is the strings to our souls. So if the church is smart, along with any organization, that if you want to broaden your audience and stay relevant, you’re going to incorporate music to everything that you do. So the message is great, it’s wonderful, but to all of the Torah you have the Book of Psalms, you know, so that’s God’s way of letting it be understood that music, our songs are relevant in how it is. He wants to express himself to the culture.

 

Nissim Black [00:05:07]

Right. It’s amazing. So who’s a musician that really, like, inspires you and motivates you? Which artist do you take inspiration from, if any? And do you incorporate, you know, certain ideas or styles that they use in their music or anything like that into your own faith?

 

Nissim Black [00:05:23]

You know what’s going to sound, nah, I ain’t going to say weird, you know, you’re an educated man, you’re cultured, so it won’t sound weird to you. But I think the last thing anyone is gonna expect me to say is this: that I get a lot of inspiration from scores.

 

Nissim Black [00:05:36]

Wow. I’m with you.

 

Michael Fisher [00:05:37]

I love movie scores, you know, so like, I love the epic movies. You know, currently I’m just crazy about The Avengers main theme song, or The Day After Tomorrow. I love that score. So Hans Zimmer is someone that I love. I love his track “Time” that they use for the movie Inception. So for me, it’s not necessarily the artist as much as it’s people who can create the sound.

 

Nissim Black [00:06:09]

Wow.

 

Michael Fisher [00:06:09]

Because the truth is, is that the artist really doesn’t even get in the mode of writing if it’s not the right sound, so.

 

Nissim Black [00:06:17]

Right.

 

Michael Fisher [00:06:18]

I’m a fan of people who create the sound. And all throughout the scripture that’s how God usually introduces himself, as with a sound. Mighty rushing wind, or they heard him walking through the garden. Those are sounds, you know.

 

Nissim Black [00:06:34]

Wow.

 

Michael Fisher [00:06:35]

So for me, Moonlight Sonata tracks, like that’s my thing. I know somebody probably was like I was going to be like, yeah, L.L. Cool J. Run DMC. Tupac.

 

Nissim Black [00:06:48]

That’s real, you know. I don’t even speak about that enough on my own, I think, you know, we’re cut from the same cloth as far as that. I mean, people don’t even understand the beauty. Like I mean, even if you think about it, like if you just watch a movie, you know, even something epic, like, you know, I haven’t watched movies in years, I’m not going to lie to you. But like, you know, one of my favorite all time favorite movies was the movie 300, you know. And I remember that, like I’m telling you, when those the strings, like if you took that away, it’s not going to be as appealing. People don’t understand, you know, when it comes to film. Even though it takes like, you know, it’s like the last thing these producers are dealing with, is like the last thing is like, OK, now we’ve got to get the music. But it’s like that’s the whole entire sale. That’s what creates the emotional draw. I’m very much so with you on that. Yeah. I understand completely.

 

Michael Fisher [00:07:39]

Yeah. So I’m, my major in college was a, rhetorical criticism and branding, with a minor in psychology.

 

Nissim Black [00:07:47]

Wow.

 

Michael Fisher [00:07:47]

You know, I really have studied what music does, you know, the right sound, the correct environment can open up people’s hearts to receive so much.

 

Nissim Black [00:08:00]

That’s amazing. That’s amazing. So so for me, being a Jewish artist, that uses like contemporary sound. I use rap music to express myself. My mother was a rapper. My father was a rapper. I was you know, I was born into this. I love this. And this is what I know how to do. In your world, you have guys like Derek Minor, Lecrae, GAWVI. There’s so many different people that are also using rap music, using contemporary sound. Which in some circles, religious circles gets a bad rap. So how you feel like it’s being received in your world?

 

Michael Fisher [00:08:31]

Well in my world, you know, so I’m a unique pastor with a unique church.

 

Nissim Black [00:08:34]

Right.

 

Michael Fisher [00:08:35]

Right. I look younger than what I am.

 

Nissim Black [00:08:37]

Yeah. You know, you don’t look a day over twenty. And I mentioned in your bio that you’ve been a pastor since you were 25. So I want to know what you’re eating.

 

Michael Fisher [00:08:46]

Yeah, right? Well, I’m vegan, you know, that’s the first thing. And so keeping control of the temple. I pastor in Compton, and I have a young crowd. So out of the three thousand members we have, seventy percent of them are thirty-five and under. So in my crowd, in my sphere, in my world, no one bats an eye when it comes to Lecrae and those kinds of artists. But to everyone else, they’re consistently bashing them as if rap and hip hop is from the devil. It irritates me.

 

Nissim Black [00:09:20]

Right.

 

Michael Fisher [00:09:20]

Because the Bible is all about poetry. I mean, you know, if you walk through Job, you got Songs, you got Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, and if you want to talk about some R-rated music, just walk through that Songs of Solomon. You know how he just graphically talks about, it’s all a metaphor, of course, by how he uses some graphic words that, you know, people would probably dismiss because they’re so religious. I think all of the talents that we possess are just attributes of God that he just sprinkles in every individual. And I don’t think that we do Him any justice in trying to silence those pieces of God that are in one another.

 

Nissim Black [00:10:00]

Right.

 

Michael Fisher [00:10:00]

Just because I can’t do it doesn’t make it any less Godly. And I hate to see that they still, you know like a Lecrae still has to justify his music.

 

Nissim Black [00:10:09]

Right.

 

Michael Fisher [00:10:10]

I think that that’s so old. It’s so yesterday. It’s so expired. I’m so over it.

 

Nissim Black [00:10:16]

Right. I think also, too, you know, it’s so incorrect. Because, you know, if you look in, even from a biblical perspective, where music is first found, when you first think about the first musical instruments, you see first Tubal Cain, who created, you know, the first weapons, and Yuval, who created the first musical instruments. Now we have many commentaries and different things like that explain that these guys were not good guys. These guys were evil guys. And music was at that time used as a way to promote idol worship. The next time you see Lavan, Laban, who played also too, with the lyre. And the, and then all of a sudden, you see King David, you see you see Levi singing in the choir that was happening at Sinai. You seeing the exact same instruments that were used for the idol worship now all of a sudden seem to be the very music that King David is using or it’s inspired people’s hearts to serve God. So it’s a very interesting thing that sometimes the most powerful thing in the world is the one thing that everybody says is like, oh, no, it can’t be. God’s not with that. God’s not using that. And it’s very interesting you see now, and I’ve told people many different times that if you look at now what rap culture done is sort of have the music industry and the world in the grip of its hand, this powerful genre. How dare God not have representation over in that place?

 

Michael Fisher [00:11:38]

Yeah, I agree completely.

 

Nissim Black [00:11:39]

I think there’s something to be said about that. So you yourself, you’re a third-generation pastor, and you’re following in the footsteps of both your father and your grandfather. You ever feel like there’s any pressure to live up to what they accomplished?

 

Michael Fisher [00:11:51]

Oh, my God, yes. But that’s good pressure. My grandfather, he during the time of the late 1920s, through the 1940s, settling finally down in the 1950s in Los Angeles, established eight churches throughout the south. So that was unheard of. Then my father comes along and he started his church in Compton in 1954, the first Black church in Compton. He told me the story of when he went to the city council. It was an all-white council. And he asks them for permission to build and they didn’t charge him a dime. And they laughed and said, “Let that Negro do what he wants because he’ll never last.” Sixty-five years later, we’re still here.

 

Nissim Black [00:12:33]

Wow.

 

Michael Fisher [00:12:34]

So when we’re talking about people who are moving the needle like that, not just in the name of religion, but in the name of culture, those are some big shoes to fill. However, because I’m fully aware that their DNA, their blood, that lineage, that legacy runs through my veins, then I know that I’m capable of being able to move the needle in my own way for this present generation. So it’s pressure, but it’s not pressure that I feel like I can’t do it. It’s pressure in the sense of like, oh, man, you know, I got to make sure I live up to that. And I kind of just put pressure on myself to make it happen and not to sleep on myself and not to lag, not to be slothful, but to move forward as quickly as I possibly can while it is that I have breath in my body and mobility in my limbs. So I’m excited about what I do.

 

Nissim Black [00:13:24]

I think what you’re saying is amazing because we also have an understanding also, you know, even in the Jewish world. Since Abraham was our father, so all the gifts and different things that he was able to accomplish are passed down even, it’s not just the things that you receive from, you know, from a DNA perspective, that these things are passed down to you because it’s a part of your DNA. You received it. And even that there’s monetary things that people can leave behind or whatever, and you can have an inheritance or whatever. But there’s also a spiritual inheritance, also. And so you being, you know, third-generation, then the same, to some degree, the same power and ability that your grandfather had and the same thing that your father had, it’s really instilled in you. You have that power too. Sort of like waking up and dusting those things off. So and although you’ve already mentioned that you do things a little bit different, what are the things that you took from them? What are the things that you’ve been able to take and, like I’mma build upon this. OK, so they started the churches and they were able to be powerful. But now there’s other things, I’m sure other elements within that that you were able to take for yourself and be like, I’m building on this and this is how I’m going to do it.

 

Michael Fisher [00:14:30]

Yeah. So I was raised that a true man knows who he is. He doesn’t shudder at it. He doesn’t minimize himself to make other people comfortable. So the two main things that I took from my father’s legacy and what he taught me about my grandfather, is number one, being your truest authentic self that God made you to be, and using that for his glory. He made you that way. So that means, like, I can’t help it if I’m a very direct, boastful, powerful speaker. Right. I’m not going to minimize that. He wants to use that that girth, if you will, to move the needle for what we affectionately say in the church world, “for the kingdom,” right. Number two, he wants to do something for that culture that’s different than what he did in the previous culture. And you have to be open for that. So what that means is, all of us were individuals. My dad did it his way. My grandfather did it his way. And my dad, he sang. And then during his time, he had guitar in the church. He had bongo players in the church. And everyone thought that that was crazy. But he didn’t allow anybody to dictate to him how it is. He was going to allow God to use his gifts to move the needle. And so I take those principles and then I allow them to be used in my unique way. So for me, my dad didn’t dance, but I have the ability to dance. So if you look at some of my stuff that’s out there on YouTube, like my video Higher, I have another video called Favor. It’s choreography in there. And when they first saw me breaking out in some 8 Counts, they was like, he a Pastor? You know, and I’m like, don’t hate on me, don’t you know, don’t hate on me because you can’t learn the 8 Count. You know, David danced before the Lord, you know? So I’ve used every gift that I’ve been given. I do poetry. I can rap. I’m not as good as y’all. I need some time. I got to sit. And really, I lost all the lunch table cyphers. But I can sing, I can dance. And whatever talent, you know, I feel like I’m a treasure chest to God. So whatever he looks at me and digs out and says, you know what, I wanna use that to affect this room, I’m available. And I will not set it down just because they are manmade rules that want to tell me what I can and what I cannot do. So that’s what I’ve taken from their legacy.

 

Nissim Black [00:16:54]

Fire. That’s amazing. I’m with you. Couldn’t have said it better myself.

 

Michael Fisher [00:16:59]

Yeah, man.

 

Nissim Black [00:17:00]

So you learned a lot from your family. But who are other contemporary faith leaders that you, that you see are either refreshing or exciting? And what do you, what are they doing that you feel that’s important right now for the generation, for the culture and for faith?

 

Michael Fisher [00:17:15]

There’s one man, his name is Bishop Kenneth C Ulmer. Bishop Kenneth Ulmer. He is the pastor of a large church out here in L.A. called Faithful Central Bible Church. And he was unique. When I was a young boy, I remember a lot of the church people used to bash him because he didn’t do a lot of what they did. He didn’t have a lot of the antics they had. He didn’t follow their model. But he ended up being one of the most successful and long-lasting pastors, not just in Los Angeles, but internationally.

 

Nissim Black [00:17:48]

Wow.

 

Michael Fisher [00:17:48]

And God blessed me with the opportunity to come to actually know him. And then he became my mentor back in 2007. And he has poured into me directly. And he is always reiterating those same principles that I’m telling you, to be uniquely you. No one else can be you. And then God took all of that, and then he called it for his own personal use. So Bishop Ulmer is one. Another one, which is the reason why I’m also so involved in social justice, is Dr. Maulana Karenga, who is the founder of Kwanzaa, was my professor for four years at Cal State University, Long Beach. And he took me under his wing and mentored me.

 

Nissim Black [00:18:33]

Wow.

 

Michael Fisher [00:18:34]

About three years even after I graduated from Cal State, Long Beach. And he really talked to me about, you know, making sure that all because I’m preaching and all because I’m a pastor and all because I am a bridge and a peace maker, does not mean that I need to negate who I am culturally in that process, right. So I can be an advocate for peace. I could be an advocate for unity and still be an advocate for my people and the justices and the injustices that we are fighting for and fighting against every single day. So those two individuals have really been a great, man, just great father figures beyond my own father. Now, I’ll be honest with you, which I hope that doesn’t get me in trouble. I am struggling in finding anyone kind of in the generation under them because I feel like we’re starting to kind of lose our way. And I’ve been kind of frustrated in that people now that are leaders and voices for all communities seem to have their focus on the wrong things.

 

Nissim Black [00:19:41]

Unfortunately.

 

Michael Fisher [00:19:42]

Yeah, unfortunately. So my mentors are that kind of aged, you know, so I’m around those wisdom, you know.

 

Nissim Black [00:19:50]

Right. That’s good, you know. Thinking about that. Everything is changing. You know I recently had an interview with Fatman Scoop, and we were just talking about the evolution of rap music. And one thing he said to me was that the rappers used to be the drug dealers, and now today that the drug users, you know. And you start to see that everything starts to flip, and even what you said about social justice, like what that’s also too there’s something new, wasn’t something that was always being dealt with by the churches, sort of like, let’s leave that on the side. And I want to understand, this is a brother from a brother.

 

Michael Fisher [00:20:20]

Yeah.

 

Nissim Black [00:20:20]

And regardless of how, I would say, even regardless of how strong the Black church is amongst the other Christian members of the faith or denominations or whatever. It’s still not the majority, I would say. Probably not. You know, not including Africa. I’m just saying it’s still not the majority. So with that, there is like this major elephant always in the room, especially when it comes to social justice things. Where does this space come from? And I’ll just say straight like this, I always tell people when they ask me and now, you know, first, obviously I’m going to speak out. If I see an injustice somewhere, I’ll speak out about it. If I really genuinely see some type of injustice, I’ll speak out about it. I’m never going to put who I am, because my physical body, it’s a house for soul. There’s a soul inside of it that has no cover. It’s even bigger and beyond anything that I could possibly think of. So I would assume that for Christian man, is that before I’m Black, I’m a Christian.

 

Michael Fisher [00:21:17]

Right.

 

Nissim Black [00:21:17]

It doesn’t mean that you don’t, like you said, you don’t pay to things in your culture. Before I’m Black, I’m a Jew. Jew as in like people hear and go, like, oh wow he’s white. Person come to Israel, you see so many different flavors and different colors of Jew, you know what I’m saying? Like it’s a religion. It’s a faith. Right. So before I’m anything else, I am faith. How do you balance that is the question. It’s because that’s a real serious thing right now, especially with everything that has been so heated over the last year or so.

 

Michael Fisher [00:21:41]

Yeah. Well, you know, the Book of Isaiah is all, it opens up heavy, you know, the prophet says, you know, do good, you know, clean your hands. You know, he’s talking to the systems that are in place, you know.

 

Nissim Black [00:21:52]

Right.

 

Michael Fisher [00:21:53]

To put it in today’s terms, he’s like, check your heart and soul. From that posture I think that that’s our duty, as all men and women of faith, is to be the heart-checkers. So when I, when I stand up for injustice, I’m not going to stand up for injustice just when it happens to the people that are Black. I have a problem with anti-Semitism. I have a problem with hate crimes that are performed to those that are in the LGBTQ+I community, no matter what people feel about that. Right. I feel like everybody deserves to be treated with respect.

 

Nissim Black [00:22:28]

Right.

 

Michael Fisher [00:22:28]

Everybody deserves to have equal opportunity. Everyone deserves to have a chance at equity. And when those things are being withheld from anybody because of the color of their skin or classism or, you know, people abusing authority, I feel from the posture of Isaiah, I got to make those people that are in the seats of authority check their heart. And so for me, I think that that should be the position of all people that are members of the faith community. Because it doesn’t matter at the end. We can argue all day long on the details and the doctrine and the theology, blah, blah, blah. But if you are a man or woman of faith, we are ambassadors to make sure that we are conduits of the desires of God for humanity.

 

Nissim Black [00:23:15]

Right.

 

Michael Fisher [00:23:15]

And what does that look like? He wants us to make sure that those that can’t defend for themselves are defended for, he wants to make sure that we are speaking up on behalf of people cannot speak up for themselves. So that’s how I keep that balance. So when people come at me, they see me very vocal about something. I mean, I remember when Black Lives Matter started trying to pull at me and I was like, we right now on the same side on some things, but I’m not about to just be over here and everything that comes out of my mouth is pro-Black. Because I care about everyone. And so the moment that even we as a people, if we ever get into a position and we start oppressing others, I’mma have a problem with that. And I’ll finish this statement in that currently in the city of Compton, my father started, like I’ve told you, it was all predominantly White. So at that time, they didn’t want Black people to get ahead, back in the 1950s. That’s a problem, right?

 

Nissim Black [00:24:07]

Right.

 

Michael Fisher [00:24:07]

Fast forward to sixty-something years later. We now are sixty-five percent Latino. And then now the Latinos are trying to get ahead. And we’ve got Black people and Black politicians that are in power purposefully saying, I don’t want to no Latino as a council member. I don’t want no Latino as no mayor. I don’t want no Mexico, no Mexican for this. So I stood up and said, you’re just as wrong. You’re just as wrong, because my job is to make you check your heart. And so that goes beyond the color of my skin, right? That’s about morality. That’s integrity. That’s character. And both you and I can always live in that vein. And that’s why I can be a Christian and I have more rabbi friends than I do pastor friends, you know, because it’s all about living in that nuance of making sure that we cause those in seats of power to check their hearts so that they don’t abuse their power.

 

Nissim Black [00:24:59]

That’s real, man. That’s beautiful. I’ve talked about this a few different times, but, you know, all these different details and things that are potential harm could be a potential harm. But at the end of the day, right now, I’ve said like this, the other side has waged a war against God. Right. So I think it’s upon every single person who’s a part of the faith community, no matter where you come from, to stand up and to fight against it. And we’re going to have to lock arms to be able to fight it. You know, and I think that, I think that what you said is very, very powerful. So I have one last question and then I’ll let you get on with your day. But I can actually sit here for hours and talk to you.

 

Michael Fisher [00:25:38]

I have enjoyed this man. I love this podcast.

 

Nissim Black [00:25:42]

Thank you.

 

Michael Fisher [00:25:43]

I look at some of your stuff, man. I think it’s totally cool. Next time you’re on a stage and you doing something, I got to come check you out.

 

Nissim Black [00:25:49]

I’mma check you out when I’m in L.A.

 

Michael Fisher [00:25:51]

I don’t know how you stayed in no Seattle, though. I don’t know how you lived in Seattle. You shoulda been out of Seattle.

 

Nissim Black [00:25:56]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

 

Michael Fisher [00:25:57]

 It should have been way before it happened.

 

Nissim Black [00:26:01]

That is true. I love it, I love my people. But, you know, I’m very, very happy to have been out of there. My last thing is this. Is there anything from the Bible, the Torah for me, anything that you feel that’s relevant right now at this time in history, if you can say what God is trying to teach the people, what people should be thinking about right now, is there anything that you would say?

 

Michael Fisher [00:26:21]

Yeah, the scripture from me and it’s going to be in the New Testament for me, it’s in Romans twelve. And our, one of our writers, his name is Paul. He says in the last verse of chapter twelve, he says, “Don’t let evil overcome your good.” I think that in a world filled with so much intentional hatred, outright displays of disregard for life. It almost brings tears to my eyes when I talk about it. It is going to be vital that soldiers on the field like you and I and those who will listen to this, will be intentional in not allowing the evil to overcome our good and the good that we’re trying to accomplish. The partnerships that we’re trying to bring together. Even though there are evils on both sides, all sides, there are always bad apples to every bunch. We have to still reach across the aisle. We have to still believe that the greater good will win. We have to still believe in the power of love and communication, even though every time you turn on the TV, you’re seeing kids, innocent kids being killed because someone brought in a gun to school and shot it up. You know, I still have to believe that my messages that I’m preaching, the songs that I’m producing, and the times that I stand before the masses, is reaching enough people to move the needle just a little bit. And I can’t allow the evil that I see to convince me otherwise. So that would be my message. And I’m holding on to that dearly, and I’m spreading that everywhere I go, and I’ll leave by saying this. One day when I looked at the pyramids, the pyramids are a great structure. It just blows everybody’s mind. But if you really think about it, it’s just small little grains of sand compacted on top of each other, on top of each other, on top of each other. And then we get this huge structure. What do I mean by that? I try not to take and trying to change the world. I just take and try to change the person. And if I change that person, that person would change a person and that person would change that person, and change a person and change a person. Until eventually we change families, and then those families change the communities, and the communities change the culture, and then culture changes the world. And I may not be alive by the time we get to the culture part, but I’ll definitely be a part of changing a person. And so eventually we get the great structure like we do the pyramids, one person at a time. So I live by that. I pass that to you, my brother, my new friend. I pass that to those that are listening. And yeah, that would be my advice.

 

Nissim Black [00:29:03]

It’s amazing in its power. And I’m with you a thousand, gazillion percent, and I can’t wait to hook up over there. Listen, because, because of my dietary restrictions, I can’t eat at Roscoe’s Chicken and Waffles. But we could go sit somewhere else!

 

Michael Fisher [00:29:19]

I’m going to take you to Roscoe’s. Don’t worry about it either, because I’m eat a waffle. I just won’t eat no chicken with you.

 

Nissim Black [00:29:26]

If it’s kosher, then we can make it happen, we can make it happen. But listen here. I really appreciate it. And you should only go from strength to strength and God should bless your hands to continue to uplift people and to bring people closer to God. That’s all I, that’s all I can ask.

 

Michael Fisher [00:29:44]

Yeah. I think that you’re doing great work. I appreciate you. I appreciate this time. You know, and for those that are listening and will listen to this, because this lives forever. I pray that whoever was walking in darkness will come to the light. And you’re doing great work, man, so Shalom to you.

 

Nissim Black [00:30:01]

Thank you. Thank you so much. I really do appreciate you coming on.

 

Michael Fisher [00:30:04]

Alright, thank you.

 

Nissim Black [00:30:15]

Wow, wow, wow, that conversation with Pastor Michael JT fisher was just over the top for me, really, really over the top for me. And it’s a beautiful thing. And that’s one of my favorite things about being able to do this podcast is like, we may be coming from probably at its origins, probably from the same world. My father’s also a pastor. To be into a different phases, and just like you could just see, just in the midst of this conversation, how many different things that we agree on, so many people fighting and arguing about so many different details. And like in the midst of all of that, God is just being dishonored and pushed to the side. Wow. Wow. I feel like, you know what evil things and more injustices are happening to the world, but people are fighting about silly things. So that conversation was power for me. And, you know, every wow and every whoa and everything that I gave over to it was genuine. And I really, really hope to see him win and do his good in the world. And I just, I can’t say enough about how impressed I am with him. In concluding, as I always do, I’d love to leave you with a song. And I think it’s appropriate from, you know, two men having the discussion from two different faiths, but were able to come together on a lot of different things that we do believe in and in many components of the faith that we do share, which is an important conversation to have. So I want to leave you with this song, Love Letter. Love Letter is a letter that I wrote to some degree to heaven, but at the same time, I’m more so describing my own ups and downs, different things that I’ve gone through, my own relationship with God and thanking God for where he brought me to. I think it’s appropriate after this conversation. So please listen to Love Letter, go stream it on Spotify, Apple Music, wherever you listen to music, check it out. And until next time, be strong and only go from strength to strength.

 

Music:

“Love Letter” by Nissim Black plays.

 

 

Nissim Black [00:34:06] 

Thank you so much for listening to The Deal with me, Nissim Black. It’s a production of the Joshua Network. Our executive producer is Josh Kross, out producer is Gilad Brownstein. Please follow the show on Instagram and Twitter @TheDealWithNB and subscribe and rate the show on Apple podcasts, Spotify, and wherever you get your podcast content. Please share this with your friends so that they can get this raw and riveting stuff from me, tours truly, G0DSMAN.

 

 

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